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ChipTuner14d ago
^ I've been shipping tarballs or self extracting tarballs. All have their benefits and drawbacks. But I think the direction RedHat is moving in (more immutability) there will be a place for system packages (RPM) and self-contained user-app packages (flatpaks).
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elsat14d ago
What’s a thing you absolutely love about your current setup (if anything)? If you could change one thing only to better suit your needs, what would it be? Why?
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Matt šŸ›ø13d ago
I remember when tarballs were super common. I still see them occasionally
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Cykros12d ago
Those of us who haven't taken on the mark of the Debian thank you for this sane practice. The amount of times I have to go digging for actual source distributions because the download page is a deb, a snap, and a flatpak... I get nobody ships txz's but a tarball should ALWAYS be one option.
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ChipTuner1d ago
To express my dedication to tarballs šŸ“ 7fd76f2a…
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mleku13d ago
tar.gz = tgz. the ball part is the compression algorithm. tar.bz2 tar.xz. still tarballs. still common. the slang has sorta faded away, but the principle is the same. unix law. layer processes in the architecture. tar is the filesystem. the ball is the packing.
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Cykros12d ago
Be aware tgz is often an extension used as a Slackware package as the output of a packageName.slackbuild script, as opposed to a .tar.gz file. If you untar a tgz file and there's no source, you may have a Slackware package, not a source tarball. That said, some of them are source packages anyway and have everything you need.
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mleku12d ago
i first ran slackware about 2005 i think it was. tgz was also commonly used for gzipped tar archives. debs and rpm files are also tgz internally, i think, maybe they migrated to also supporting bzip2 and xz, with a different header. appimages, snaps and flatpaks are a similar format except with an embedded filesystem, i think at least one of them uses the same squash format as used with initrd. squashfs. there is a driver in the kernel that can mount these, though now there is drivers for all of them, i forget when that appeared, maybe around 2008-2010. the chances that someone passes you a tgz now are pretty low. at one time, bz2s were called tbz. after that the double extension became more common like tar.xz or tar.bz2, or tar.gz. nothing to beware of. it's a unix filesystem. you can manually install the slackware packages literally by just doing "tar xvf filename.tgz" at /. slashdot. the root filesystem.
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ChipTuner13d ago
I've got plenty of tarballs to go around lol https://www.vaughnnugent.com/resources/software/modules/V…
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Matt šŸ›ø13d ago
Jesus. The King of Tarballs. The man singlehandedly keeping the tarball alive lol
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ChipTuner13d ago
Doing what I can to help my people XD
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Cykros11d ago
I just meant beware informationally not because of danger. And yea, I haven't seen it pop up as a confusing thing in a loooong time. But I do recall the early years where I did install most things from tar balls and got confused when there was no configure script or Makefile in one...
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mleku11d ago
fair. slack was nice. i consider arch to be the spiritual descendant. both drop upgrades at maybe more than 4x the sped of debs. what i hated about slack was how many times i destroyed my installation building stuff from scratch, usually experimental apps and especially drivers. ubuntu was less fragile. still, it amazed me how bugs i remember from 8 still existed until like 2022.
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Cykros11d ago
Arch takes a few decisions I don't like. The rolling release bring a big one, and it is somewhat antithetical to Slackware's approach of a release every few years when Pat feels like it. The other one is systemd -- Arch was one of the earliest adopters. Slackware has long prided itself on being Unix-like, and nothing about systemd's design seems in line with the Unix philosophy. They do attract a similar class of power user though, as do Gentoo and NixOS. Particularly those not scared to get their hands dirty.
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Cykros11d ago
If I recall correctly though Arch is pretty good about avoiding making things unduly overly configured, preferring a mostly vanilla install of software where possible. This is SO crucial and is probably one of the biggest places I lose my mind with Debian derivatives. I shouldn't need documentation for using a package on Debian; reading software's official documentation should be sufficient to be accurate without major caveats about what was modified.
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mleku11d ago
Mark Shuttleworth is a pencilneck dweeb. If you want to see any more examples of it go look at their job application procedures. You wouldn't expect it. This was not the culture of Ian Murdoch's project he built from.
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mleku11d ago
Nix isn't really unixlike either. More in the spirit of NeXT than unix. IE, proto-mac, with extra steps. Also, I definitely agree about systemd. all of it unnecessary, just like C++ and Rust philosophy of "woo expressiveness". Rust in particular really grinds my gears. You feel it when you try to start learning it but go look at how the language grammar works. There's like 6 elements to it that are fully combinatorial. Looks similar to Go's count of language features until you realise that it's actually over 3x as complex. Which explains why it takes about the same time to build as C++ with ccache installed. strfry and nostr-rs-relay both take about 11 minutes on my hardware. Khatru, relayer, orly. maybe 40 seconds with a clean build cache.
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